tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31210316.post115496578919568817..comments2023-08-02T05:02:41.706-05:00Comments on Reasons and Opinions: More on the Justness (Or Not) of the Israeli Warshadhuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03933715508568783990noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31210316.post-1154988522684705232006-08-07T17:08:00.000-05:002006-08-07T17:08:00.000-05:00Going beyond the academic arguments of just war, o...Going beyond the academic arguments of just war, one needs to recognize the reality that mankind presently has the tradition, motivation, and means to pursue war, and hence will likely continue to do so in our lifetime and thereafter. Hence the practical question is how to reduce the propensity of war, and in case war does break out, how to minimize atrocities and other fallouts from the engagement. International treaties, institutions, and practices come in to address these questions. Hence the importance of the UN and the International Court, although we love to bash them at every opportunity.shadhuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03933715508568783990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31210316.post-1154983095075260882006-08-07T15:38:00.000-05:002006-08-07T15:38:00.000-05:00kalle anka,You say:"The problem with the just war ...kalle anka,<BR/><BR/>You say:<BR/><BR/>"The problem with the just war reasoning is that it provides for the possibility that there could be such a thing. but, that is not the case. there is no such thing as a just war!"<BR/><BR/>You would seem to be in very good company here although the agreement between you and Benedict XVI does not entirely correspond. Speaking of John Paul II's evaluation of the justice involved in the Iraq aggression, he said:<BR/><BR/>"The Holy Father's judgment is also convincing from the rational point of view: There were not sufficient reasons to unleash a war against Iraq. To say nothing of the fact that, given the new weapons that make possible destructions that go beyond the combatant groups, today we should be asking ourselves if it is still licit to admit the very existence of a "just war."<BR/><BR/>John LowellJohn Lowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05116334409464724643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31210316.post-1154974130726657972006-08-07T13:08:00.000-05:002006-08-07T13:08:00.000-05:00the problem with the just war reasoning is that it...the problem with the just war reasoning is that it provides for the possibility that there could be such a thing. but, that is not the case. there is no such thing as a just war! sometimes, there is such a thing as a killing that we can understand. better to think in terms of just peace. and, while we're at it, consider the possibility that an unjust peace may be better than a just war.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31210316.post-1154973769828284742006-08-07T13:02:00.000-05:002006-08-07T13:02:00.000-05:00Kalle Anke,You note yourself that there are no "si...Kalle Anke,<BR/><BR/>You note yourself that there are no "simple instructions". It's complicated and nuanced. The best we can do is to apply the traditional just war principles (ad bellum and in bello) to the circumstances at hand. You also admit that there are indeed certain circumstance when war can be justified. What we need to do is to keep the universal norms of justice in mind, as will happen when we frame the debate along just war teaching lines, and not get swayed by some form of moral relativism. For a start, the just war principles rule out the "eye for an eye" thinking, or the lex talionis. Also, they rule out various forms of consequentialist reasoning (end justifies the means). The logic behind the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was based on such reasoning-- and it was 100 percent wrong.Morning's Minionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11226079972555513328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31210316.post-1154970378485057292006-08-07T12:06:00.000-05:002006-08-07T12:06:00.000-05:00This whole debate about just wars is starting to g...This whole debate about just wars is starting to get old, and I'm particular concerned about christians trying to come up with some sort of a rationalization of when it is just to murder people. Doesn't sound like much progress over the "eye for an eye" of the old testament. Just when exactly did the sermon on the mount get forgotten?<BR/><BR/>And maybe more worrisome, whatever happened to the peace movement. All those wonderful demonstrations to make the world a better place. Who knows whether they did any good, but they certainly didn't do much harm, and raised awareness. <BR/><BR/>There seems to have been a break with the traditional roles of warmongers and peaceniks somewhere in the Balkans. Watching innocent people being slaughtered was too much, even for most advocates of non-violence. And all of a sudden, military intervention and killing was acceptable because it had the ultimate goal of reducing suffering. That was the day the peace movement died. And it was also the day that the warmonger faction got a serious boost for justifying their actions.<BR/><BR/>It's time to go back and ponder the fundamental question whether it is ever (!) right to take another life. Of course, it's easy to think of some specific circumstances where almost everybody would say "yes," think killing an evil dictator. But maybe this is where it needs to stop!?<BR/><BR/>It would be nice if we could get such a simple instruction, and then live happily ever after. No such luck. But, in cases where the vicious cycle of violence and counter-violence is clearly leading nowhere, it may just be time to try something completely different and opt for non-violence. For now, the Lebanese government has done just that, though probably not necessarily out of choice. Time for Israel and Hezbollah to consider what would happen if they decided to unilateraly stop the killing. And time for the people in Israel, Lebanon, and the rest of the world for that matter, to make their voices heard for a time of non-violence, and ultimately peace. Yes, there is mistrust, but every single life lost does nothing but nurture that mistrust.<BR/><BR/>Peace Now!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com